Despite several claims of identification from surviving friends of Brushy Bill Roberts being Billy the Kid he was discredited. Well, you can’t let people know that a criminal got away, can you? Same goes for the three men who escaped Alcatraz their bodies were never found so they just drowned and were carried out to sea. The government has their reasons for lying or bending the truth. Afterall, the victors write history.
Thankfully in the case of Billy the Kid it wasn't the government that wrote the history but actual historians. And the historians have a wealth of first hand eye-witness accounts to pull from when studying the death of Billy the Kid. Also, just to clarify, there were zero claims of surviving friends of Billy the Kid who vouched for Brushy Bill. Most of the people who signed affidavits in support of Roberts never even knew the real historical Billy the Kid (some of them weren't even born yet in 1881). The only two people that have any credibility are Severo Gallegos and Jose Montoya, both of whom were very young children in 1880 who MAY have POSSIBLY known Billy the Kid but they weren't his friends or peers. Historians have been able to identify the names of over two dozen people who saw Billy's body there at Fort Sumner.
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear with my question. I wasn’t referring to the early release of episodes, I was asking about your first episodes. You often refer to an earlier episode. I subscribed via ITunes and the first episode is the one on Dave Rudabaugh. I don’t have access to the ones that came before that. How do I get those first episodes? Thanks
Oh! My bad, I forgot to answer this Tom. So there are about 25 episodes or so that I took off the public feed that are now only available on Patreon. Honestly, though, they're reallllly bad and I do have plans to re-record them all sooner rather than later.
I get the podcast via iTunes and was wondering how I can access the early episodes? I’m really enjoying the show so far. I listened to the Black Bart episode last week and coincidentally I was camping at the Angels Camp Glory hole and bass fishing in New Melones Lake🤠
So the early episodes are hit or miss. Sometimes I'm able to post early on Patreon and sometimes I'm not. Also, the Patreon may be going away very shortly and replaced by something else.
Excellent article! I applaud your desire to be objective and pursue the truth! As always the content is superb! I would interject one complete thought in the sentence;
“Indeed, they were both fully human amd fully flawed men, as tends to be the case with most people.” I would suggest “…..as tends to be case with ALL people, save Jesus Christ. “
Thanks again, i really enjoy learning about the Old West and very much appreciate your writing ability and desire for the truth!
Everybody wanted the brushy bill story to be true, but after I read of him vouching for a guy claiming to be Jesse James, I figured liars hang together. He’s an obvious fraud, and a dead one to boot. I like seeing people get tore up over mushy bill. Emilio did a good job at playing the part and hasn’t done much since. And I guess the only thing we know for sure about these old west characters is we don’t know for sure. Keep up the great work
That was a great read as always Josh ! , I'm looking forward to your series about Pat Garrett . If you ever get the chance to go to Ft . Sumner and Lincoln you really should . I got the same feeling there that I get when walking the Gettysburg Battlefield and it's a feeling that can't be explained ( Yeah I'm a Civil War history nerd too ) . Baltimore Maryland has a few connections to the old west too such as Sallie Chisum , Frank & Jesse James and Union General ( eventually Governor ) Lew Wallace . Have a safe and happy 4th of July . Much love and respect from Baltimore Maryland .
Pat Garrett is a guy who imo many people can relate to, in that, he had a choice to make regarding either remaining “free” or choosing to compromise his freedom for security. We are told that those who make such compromises deserve neither freedom NOR security. Most of us make this choice when we enter the work force, since the choice today seems to be, work for someone else, start your own business or live in a tent under an overpass. Pat, however, could’ve been much more truly free than we today. Problem was, there was waaaaayyy too much freedom back then; Pat helped eradicate the Buffalo from the plains, and when he’d finished killing Buffalo, he made a living gambling, did a bit of rustling. THESE are the Crimes of Pat Garrett; I personally don’t care how close he was with Billy. Pat Garrett was a whore, is what I’m saying, and then tried to go “legit”, up to and including turning on those who currently make a living doing what the subject had done previously, before his “reclamation”. ; f*** any-and-everyone who ever had this idea, its hypocrisy at its deepest; Pat knew he was a hypocrite, and whatever guilt he lived with later on stemmed from this. And this is mostly what filmmakers have embellished into “Pat felt guilt because he killed Billy, who was his friend”. Although Peckinpah does have Pat & Billy as actual former comrades, I think when Garret turns the gun on the mirror after killing Billy, and pulls the trigger, shooting himself - I think maybe that’s getting closer to potentially providing us a bit of insight into how Garret might have felt about killing The Kid. I’m not sure Garret appreciated how he became the “bad guy” afterwards though 😂, but that’s the way it goes, as Townes Van Zant once wrote.
I’m not even 100% at moment what the actual warrant said, meaning, Who was Billy arrested for killing? Was it the crooked, murdering sheriff, Brady? In Peckinpah’s film, they change who the warrant was actually for iirc, and they make a point to say how ridiculous the entire thing was, and they laugh when Pat tells the name back to them (even Garrett had to ask someone else 😂), saying how it was over a year since the killing, and was in self-defense to boot iirc. But There was no real “Law”, just 2 sides, a line running between them, and men such as Pat Garrett and Bob Olinger stepping back-and-forth across it, depending on who they were being paid by. These are the actions of prostitutes, not lawmen. Not even men. Rodents.
What a good read. My views are online with you josh. They new each other had time for each other but pat loved the dollar more
Despite several claims of identification from surviving friends of Brushy Bill Roberts being Billy the Kid he was discredited. Well, you can’t let people know that a criminal got away, can you? Same goes for the three men who escaped Alcatraz their bodies were never found so they just drowned and were carried out to sea. The government has their reasons for lying or bending the truth. Afterall, the victors write history.
Thankfully in the case of Billy the Kid it wasn't the government that wrote the history but actual historians. And the historians have a wealth of first hand eye-witness accounts to pull from when studying the death of Billy the Kid. Also, just to clarify, there were zero claims of surviving friends of Billy the Kid who vouched for Brushy Bill. Most of the people who signed affidavits in support of Roberts never even knew the real historical Billy the Kid (some of them weren't even born yet in 1881). The only two people that have any credibility are Severo Gallegos and Jose Montoya, both of whom were very young children in 1880 who MAY have POSSIBLY known Billy the Kid but they weren't his friends or peers. Historians have been able to identify the names of over two dozen people who saw Billy's body there at Fort Sumner.
Were seems to be the operative word.
Josh I finally figured out this site. Hallelujah
I'm on!
Heck yeah
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear with my question. I wasn’t referring to the early release of episodes, I was asking about your first episodes. You often refer to an earlier episode. I subscribed via ITunes and the first episode is the one on Dave Rudabaugh. I don’t have access to the ones that came before that. How do I get those first episodes? Thanks
Oh! My bad, I forgot to answer this Tom. So there are about 25 episodes or so that I took off the public feed that are now only available on Patreon. Honestly, though, they're reallllly bad and I do have plans to re-record them all sooner rather than later.
I get the podcast via iTunes and was wondering how I can access the early episodes? I’m really enjoying the show so far. I listened to the Black Bart episode last week and coincidentally I was camping at the Angels Camp Glory hole and bass fishing in New Melones Lake🤠
So the early episodes are hit or miss. Sometimes I'm able to post early on Patreon and sometimes I'm not. Also, the Patreon may be going away very shortly and replaced by something else.
Love these newsletters!!!!!!!!
Excellent article! I applaud your desire to be objective and pursue the truth! As always the content is superb! I would interject one complete thought in the sentence;
“Indeed, they were both fully human amd fully flawed men, as tends to be the case with most people.” I would suggest “…..as tends to be case with ALL people, save Jesus Christ. “
Thanks again, i really enjoy learning about the Old West and very much appreciate your writing ability and desire for the truth!
Everybody wanted the brushy bill story to be true, but after I read of him vouching for a guy claiming to be Jesse James, I figured liars hang together. He’s an obvious fraud, and a dead one to boot. I like seeing people get tore up over mushy bill. Emilio did a good job at playing the part and hasn’t done much since. And I guess the only thing we know for sure about these old west characters is we don’t know for sure. Keep up the great work
That was a great read as always Josh ! , I'm looking forward to your series about Pat Garrett . If you ever get the chance to go to Ft . Sumner and Lincoln you really should . I got the same feeling there that I get when walking the Gettysburg Battlefield and it's a feeling that can't be explained ( Yeah I'm a Civil War history nerd too ) . Baltimore Maryland has a few connections to the old west too such as Sallie Chisum , Frank & Jesse James and Union General ( eventually Governor ) Lew Wallace . Have a safe and happy 4th of July . Much love and respect from Baltimore Maryland .
Pat Garrett is a guy who imo many people can relate to, in that, he had a choice to make regarding either remaining “free” or choosing to compromise his freedom for security. We are told that those who make such compromises deserve neither freedom NOR security. Most of us make this choice when we enter the work force, since the choice today seems to be, work for someone else, start your own business or live in a tent under an overpass. Pat, however, could’ve been much more truly free than we today. Problem was, there was waaaaayyy too much freedom back then; Pat helped eradicate the Buffalo from the plains, and when he’d finished killing Buffalo, he made a living gambling, did a bit of rustling. THESE are the Crimes of Pat Garrett; I personally don’t care how close he was with Billy. Pat Garrett was a whore, is what I’m saying, and then tried to go “legit”, up to and including turning on those who currently make a living doing what the subject had done previously, before his “reclamation”. ; f*** any-and-everyone who ever had this idea, its hypocrisy at its deepest; Pat knew he was a hypocrite, and whatever guilt he lived with later on stemmed from this. And this is mostly what filmmakers have embellished into “Pat felt guilt because he killed Billy, who was his friend”. Although Peckinpah does have Pat & Billy as actual former comrades, I think when Garret turns the gun on the mirror after killing Billy, and pulls the trigger, shooting himself - I think maybe that’s getting closer to potentially providing us a bit of insight into how Garret might have felt about killing The Kid. I’m not sure Garret appreciated how he became the “bad guy” afterwards though 😂, but that’s the way it goes, as Townes Van Zant once wrote.
I’m not even 100% at moment what the actual warrant said, meaning, Who was Billy arrested for killing? Was it the crooked, murdering sheriff, Brady? In Peckinpah’s film, they change who the warrant was actually for iirc, and they make a point to say how ridiculous the entire thing was, and they laugh when Pat tells the name back to them (even Garrett had to ask someone else 😂), saying how it was over a year since the killing, and was in self-defense to boot iirc. But There was no real “Law”, just 2 sides, a line running between them, and men such as Pat Garrett and Bob Olinger stepping back-and-forth across it, depending on who they were being paid by. These are the actions of prostitutes, not lawmen. Not even men. Rodents.
In order to believe that Garrett killed Billy you have to downplay their friendship!